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for my next newsletter and episode i bought the bestselling laptop on Amazon to try and explain how shitty most people's exposure to tech is. Currently at 30 minutes of menus and updates. I have agreed to three privacy policies and created two new accounts. We live in hell

I agreed to this thing from edge. I have no idea what I agreed to! But I agreed to it. Also they just hit you with a OneDrive ad for good measure

"why don't you do a clean install why don't you do linux what if you replaced this" no no no no no. This is the bestselling laptop on Amazon and I am acting as if I am a normal person. Normal people don't even know what linux is. They think the Penguin is bothersome

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I hate the extra work of turning off, deleting, hacking out all the useless annoyances that come with Windows, but Linux is basically the same problem from the other angle! I'd just be doing as much or MORE tedious work to achieve a regular functioning system that I'm close enough to with Windows

Once saw someone on Twitter say "Never recommend Linux to anyone. The people who can use it well already know about it, and the people who don't know about it will get supremely pissed off trying to use it."

Linux is great for anyone with a bit of knowledge about tech. It's also great for those with zero interest in tech. If you have a friend who can set it up for you, it just works. (And I've done that for several people.) It's not so good for the big majority in between.

In 2021 I did a 1k mile road trip in a Mustang Mach-E to show how terrible charging infrastructure is in the US for non-Teslas. The whole time I had people in comments saying “Just use this random crowdsourced app of working stations!” The point was to show what would happen if my mom bought it.

SOOO annoying moving from Windows to Windows. No, I don't want extensions hidden, My bet is that "recent browsing history" means they're sending it back to MS \for advertising\ to help you save data in case of a crash.

My parents swapped out their internet service provider and so it changed their WiFi, at which point their wireless printer went into lockdown and required a full factory reset to work again. I figured it out while visiting for thanksgiving, but this is not how technology should behave.

I had to provide this exact same tech support earlier this year! I have no relevant experience other being younger, less easily intimidated by IT, and more prepared to Google through it. My Dad would have seriously tossed that printer rather than get through it. This shit is infuriating

Here's a bespoke comparison of linux distros and their technical and philosophical differences so you can make an informed choice (note: some of the choices are WRONG WRONG WRONG): 1/∞

Anything prebuilt is hell these days. At least if you DIY, you usually get away with just having to clean up the garbage from the Windows install (and maybe wrestle with whatever janky control center software your motherboard manufacturer has). Not much choice there with laptops, though.

And for weeks and months afterwards it keeps saying "let's finish setting up your PC", mainly because you chose to use Firefox and not Edge. Disregarding Linux for now, does a new Mac do this?

Android is Linux, and MacOS has very similar command line interactions making it basically Linux. Also these days it’s just as easy or easier to use than the bloated “mainstream” operating systems. You’re just being blissful in your ignorance and unwillingness to try something new.

I am done messing with this thing but I think it's fair to assume that hundreds of millions of people experience the computer in a way that is actively harmful

I switched to apple (except for my PC which I rarely use anymore anyway). I’m shocked at the difference in user experience. Canceling my Microsoft subscription and my Google Drive subscription were lowkey nightmares, as were getting things reset because everything wants to use my old phone to ID me.

Y'know, I'm reminded of the many comments I've seen to the effect of "kinda wild how only one generation [Millennials] learned to use computers." But the joke doesn't mention how part of that might be that one generation (Millennials) have ruined them since.

Stop blaming the computer!! From what you've written, it works well. Your beef is with the Operating System and software. I won't say "try Linux" but I use it for the reasons you complain about. Privacy is respected, terms of use are fair, and updates fast and easy. Complaining isn't a solution.

stop trying to tell me about Linux! I have gone 38 years without learning anything other than there's a sickly penguin and a red hat! Normal people do not experience Linux! For shame!

I'm a normal person, maybe a tiny bit tech savvy, and I know ABOUT Linux. I worked at a place once where all their computers ran Linux and it was AMAZING. However, I don't have the mental bandwidth to install it on my personal computer, and fight compatibility issues.

Exactly. It kicks ass but sharing a file with somebody from a Windows environment may be an issue, depending on the software. The open source spreadsheet software is NOT totally compatible with Excel, for instance.

I concur, as a linux user. They don't think about the steps of making a bootable USB to install linux from and setting the computer to boot from it. Joe Average isn't going to get that done, he's going to get Windows with the computer and use it until Microsoft says it's time to buy a new one.

Ed, Linux isn't inherently more difficult than windows. Most people are just used to all the quirks of Windows. It's the default on most laptops and part of how they maintain their user share. My own mum has been using a Linux computer for years and hasn't noticed. It's all web browsing anyway!

“You should install Linux” ‘But none of my extensive and important array of VBA scripts will work anymore. My job breaks.’ “You shouldn’t have written those scripts.”

Friend of mine who works in IT is trying to pick a laptop that suits his needs and the number of times he found something close in specs and build quality but has some sort of Linux driver issues is incredible. Certainly not something for anyone who just knows how to open chrome and word.

This is accurate. I was in the tech industry for 10 years, and now work with the public at a library. I have people come in who don't know how to tell what is a spam message, let alone mark it as spam. Throwing Linux at them is just cruel.

lol, I agree most normal people never use anything Unix /Linux . I only used it because work at a point. There was a period I saw people who were becoming ticked with MS and the uptick in cost of Windows. Back when you had to buy actual discs to upgrade. A rare few jumped on Linux in the 90’s

The number of times you explained that the purpose of the exercise is to replicate the experience of a general audience, just to get specialist responses, says something about the problem of specialist thinking too

in fairness, ubuntu is a preexisting word, but i suppose considering if youre encountering it in a tech context it will probably be devoid of its context as a non-english word so it makes sense that it'd sound weird

Ed, what you need is a baseball bat. A baseball bat doesn't require you to sign up for any service, doesn't spy on you, doesn't actively participates in stealing your identity, doesn't burn the planet, and it can smash that laptop to pieces in a second.

Nobody has not used a computer running linux at this point, but usually just as an appliance of some sort. But as a general purpose desktop computer - I first started using Linux computers in about 1995 and I am using one this second - i agree that it's not for everybody.

I *have* a Linux computer (Ubuntu 24.whatever) that really wanted to like, but my Win 11 machine is so much easier to use. So I rarely boot the Linux box. Vexing issue: I've never been able to successfully install the DisplayPort drivers. Spent at least 12 hours of my life trying, then gave up.

Why? Linux is very flexible and aside from some specific Window apps like Adobe programs or a few games almost everything runs there and many things are even better suited to it. Plus, it's free, so cheaper for any manufacturer (which is why phones are running Linux, not Windows like in the past)

Linus Torvalds didn't make the mascot a penguin stuffed with fish for you to call them "sickly"! 😄 Also Red Hat Linux literally stopped development in 2004

I agree! I’m on multiple social media platforms, have built computers in my past, can install any program. Ppl shouldn’t pick ONE “safe platform.”. Texh companies will defeat them all, as they have done in the past. Regulation could help, but a GOP Congress will sell us all out.

OUAT when I was young and cute, I was bouncing through the halls at work and saw two dudes,one of which was wearing a Linux shirt. I said "it's Tux!" and kept walking. I heard "See, SHE knew who it was" and the most disgusted sigh from his friend. As close to installing it as I ever got.

i love how this thread has “stop telling me about linux that’s not the point” in it TWICE and i still see multiple people doing it, one guy has done it 3 times, etc. This IS just twitter still, nobody can tell me otherwise LOL

sorry FOUR times in your replies, hahaha. “don’t do this please” DOES IT 4 TIMES is that antisocial twitter behaviour we’ve all come to know and hate haha

25 yrs ago I co-taught a class for normies on how to surf the web. My co-instructor opened AOL, connected and loaded that hell portal. I then minimized the window and opened Netscape Navigator. My co-instructor was floored. "I didn't know you could do that." she said. Little has changed.

I've dual booted several laptops but on my most recent bought a System76 laptop with Linux preinstalled. Nice to open up a laptop and not have to immediately wipe the machine and hope that the hardware wasn't too new for the drivers to be caught up. Normal people don't want to compile a wifi driver.

I bought a wee Linux netbook once and lost my enthusiasm for it when I could not for the life of me figure out how to install anything new to it, despite trying 3 different tutorials 😂

Fun fact: the fully guided but annoying and confusing setup flow that is making you want to rip your hair out was probably designed and implemented without a trace of irony by someone who thinks rolling your own Linux install & config is no big deal.

What's truly amusing about this thread + all these replies is that "normal people" would find a system76 laptop easier to use than a Mac or Windows PC

you did post bait for some of the most annoying Linux users though. pretty sure you would probably end up viewing it as a tragedy of stuff starting for individual freedom ending up running servers that are running evil companies now if you actually went through the history and that is pretty tragic.

Linux talk is so exhausting like you just bought a vacuum and people are trying to tell you to dismantle it and re-engineer the motor No I just want to vacuum

Every so often I install it as a trial. And then within 20 minutes go back to Windows, because there's some things you just can't do without the Terminal, and I don't even know what to Google because everything is so different.

I was seriously relieved when I started listening to your podcast and realized my increasing levels of frustration with modern tech are not because I'm getting older (I'm only 40 for gods's sake!) but because everything is actively getting worse. 🫠

And Adobe changes the UI for Acrobat like every week. Moving things to the opposite side of the screen. Removing collapsable menus and making you move your mouse halfway across the screen instead of slightly down. Sticking the text search bar on top of the document (blocking it), etc.

Even with the iPhone — one of the most useful and user-friendly tech products in existence — my experience of getting a new one has gone from “what cool new stuff does this do?” to “what new hardware do I need to buy and tricks do I need to learn to get my new phone to do the things my old one did?”

they were only ever "user-friendly" to people who only ever used iphones. everyone else wants to smash the damn thing 30 seconds into trying to do even the simplest tasks.

But, hey, I guess at least MS re-added the ability to ctrl+shift+V to paste plain text only...in like two Office products...and then advertised it like they hadn't been the ones to have removed the option to begin with...

lol I was previously a Linux sys admin for web app dev (for a living), and now an R programmer in an Apple ecosystem, and today my dad clicked on some sketchy link that made his windows laptop go into a security freak out tailspin and I was like “uh dad I don’t know wtf to do except hard reboot?”

the other half of the millions of normal users have a similar but equally nonsense computer setup for work i have one of the ‘better’ ones but the laptop would die if it goes over an hour and a half without getting plugged in

Manufacturers should not be putting insane amounts of bloatware onto their devices. Idk if it’s a cost thing but it’s insane the amount of software that comes installed on Windows machines these days that provides 0 or negative value.

I’d also argue that with their more recent operating systems, Microsoft has been forcing people more and more into having computer accounts backed up by online accounts (which is unnecessary) and putting more barriers and agreements in between you starting the computer out of the box and using it

The mfg is only making money on these bottom of the barrel laptops because of the bundleware/bloatware. Microsoft allows it because they get $20-100 per machine from the oem, what do they care if the end user has an awful experience? They got their money and people will blame the manufacturer.

Most people think giving away their personal info is the trade off for functional tech. My parents don't think twice when asked for their email, DOB, gender and phone number. It's disgusting the way the tech industry takes advantage of people that don't know better

Windows is literally unusable with default settings and stock bloatware. And there is no way to get out of this market, you can spend $1500-$2000 on a Thinkpad and it still has it. It’s wild cause the bloatware will literally eat up half the stock ssd and load the processor enough to kill battery

You're right. The median PC setup experience even drives experienced users to alternatives like MacBooks & ChromeBooks if they don't absolutely need a Windows system. Not that they lack dark patterns, but it's not Windows via [insert manufacturer here.]

Linux is like when I would shoot raw photos of my wife and child on vacation and then have to color grade them and export them and it’s like… I just want to see these pictures of my family and share them with my mom and shit. Lemme just shoot jpgs and smile at my goofy baby covered in ice cream!

I setup a computer lab at a school I worked for with Ubuntu and when I quit working there, they stopped using the computers because they couldn’t troubleshoot anything if they had a problem. I love Linux, but it’s a limited, finicky headache if you aren’t a power user, and that’s true 15y later.

I literally had to make a boot drive two days ago and it hung on the boot check. apparently Windows' autoplay fucks with the image as it's being written, so I had to reflash the USB all over again. easy/annoying for ME to fix but I imagined my mom trying to deal with it on her and. lmao.

Yeah. I've been using Windows going back to Windows 3.0 and it took the Copilot AI spyware to finally get me to jump ship. Glad I did tho :-)

Yeah nah I gave up all of it, normal people should just buy a MacBook. Everything else is trying to emulate a MacBook but without the good parts.

windows requires chainsawing out the bits i don't want, linux requires elaborately constructing a tale of software i would like to work, as a software engineer i am finding my perfect cave to live in so i can fight all of the murderbots trying to sell me nootropics

As a Linux person, this sort of exercise is very useful to understanding people's experiences...somewhere between user research and sociology. It's shocking just how involved and high-maintenance Windows can be and how vigilant you have to be these days to keep it from changing the deal on you.

My mom's Windows laptop was so fucked with shitware that it was essentially unusable and unrecoverable. So I put Windows in a jail partition and installed Linux. She no longer has the privileges to install shitware and is blown away by how awesome it is. All she needs is a browser anyway.

Actually I respect this a lot for an article. Often something I talk about with others in the tech/gamedev space is exactly this. Looking at what normal people are doing with the product. Not everyone is a power user, and some are barely a user at best. People tend to forget that.

normal people do know if you've introduced them. but they won't have the know-how to burn their own cd or usb to do a clean install