Post

I'd like to see more writing on how the Musk/Trump junta feels like a frontal attack on the entire concept of virtue, in even the most traditional senses. They are actively demonizing and punishing everyone who doesn't worship Mammon.

1.2K reposts5.6K likes

It feels like a continuation of Covid times where it was revealed that some of the people truly had the empathy and compassion they represented and some (much more than I had expected) were just cosplaying as part of decent society.

i realize a lot of people have issues with this writer (i personally think she has her insights and that her parents' actions are not her responsibility but anyway) but i thought this was a good take The Last Time

I read the thread. IMHO American fascism differs from other forms in that people have to signal American individualism to such an extreme because they think common courtesy makes you a communist. Which manifests as sociopathy at a societal level.

I would trace a jagged but clear line from the moment when Kelly Anne Conway declared the existence of "alternative truth". From there we can quickly recognize "alternate honor", "alternate virtue", and "alternate laws".

Trump has spent his life obsessed with money, sex, and grievance, and cannot comprehend anyone being motivated by anything else. Everyone around him this time is a similarly amoral con man or a cultist who has abandoned all common virtue for the Super Secret Greater Good of the Cause.

I think we saw who Trump is with his losers comment about the military. You’re right about the people he is surrounding himself with this time around. But, there are also people in Trumps orbit who would completely humiliate themselves in order to gain favor. They could walk away but don’t.

What is boils down to is Silicon Valley arrogance and ‘move fast, break things’ concept applied to a government. The reason you can do that in a start-up is that 90% of them fail, the last 10% just make enough money that it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t work in this case.

I think you can square the circle if you compare this to how he got in the fight saying that of course Jesus told Christians to prioritize their own family (when all of Christian history has emphasized the opposite).

Augustine said of ordo amoris that it must culminate in love of God, and if it doesn't, it's a sin. Love of self and family is just the first baby step on the road to love of God, and Vantz et al. stop there, well short of love of God. So, sinners.

At some point, the pure, lawful, shining symbol of goodness and heroism embodied in superheroes like Superman was overshadowed by vigilante, outlaw, anti-heroes like Batman and the Punisher. When the ends justifies the means, you can cheat, steal, kill for a cause you believe in.

“Trump has liberated a lot of people from the last vestiges of the Sermon on the Mount. A lot of people turn out to have been sick and tired of pretending to be good.” Wallace Shawn, 2020 I think about this quote at least once a week.

nybooks.comWallace Shawn: Developments Since My BirthI wonder if anyone but me remembers that during the years after the end of World War II, there were a lot of US Army jeeps on the streets of New York. I

Something that stuck with me from studying to be licensed as an educator is Kohlberg’s stages of moral development. If you were only being good because you felt external pressures meant you *had to*, I guess it would be neat to get permission to be bad. (This is so depressing.)

Incredibly sad statement, but no falsity detected. What #fElonMusk and #traitortrump have in common is sociopathy, avarice, fascist tendencies, and an utter lack of empathy, caring, or humanity. Peas in a very damaged pod.

That’s a very long article to get through with “this guy doesn’t understand cost of living differs in different countries” bouncing around in my head. Ok, US workers earn more than those in Europe if you only look at euro:USD exchange.

Behind the Bastards has an episode about how "Nice, normal people" enabled Nazi Germany. The supporters of Hitler were folks who owned small businesses, who didn't want to become poor, yet had enough affluence to have some comfort, while still being hungry for the wealth of their neighbors.

I literally just re-read this again. So much of this rings true to me. I live like a Rockefeller lived right now, and yet somehow I've convinced myself I'm struggling. It's crazy.

I’ve been at an outdoor mall today in an SF Bay Area suburb and it’s so clear how it filters down to the working class,who don’t necessarily mind the existence of unhoused/marginal people *as long as they don’t have to see them* Same with immigrants. Know your place, pick the food, don’t bother me

I keep insisting that he won in 2016 by giving GOP voters permission to forget they elected G Dub and this idea dovetails pretty nicely into mine imo

Provided we win a civil war, it would be a good chance to remove terrible people from positions of power. Be it the middle management that steals your wages or Elon himself, we can make our society far more egalitarian than ever before. ...So long as we don't stop Reconstruction v2.0.

The GOP needed to rebrand post-Watergate, and so they came up with the Moral Majority. The Moral Majority begat The Contract With America, which begat The Tea Party, which begat MAGA. None of these had anything to do with Christ; they were all just conservative rebrands of White nationalism.

The U.S. equates wealth with virtue. Hoarding wealth (ie, billionaires) and resources is immoral and leads to the abject corruption we are now seeing. Law enforcement is being punished. Soft diplomacy is being wiped out. The nation's coffers--which belong to WTP--are being threatened. #ForkElonMusk

I don’t know exactly how to say this clearly right now, but I hate how they, due to their nominal authority and stridency/brutal gestures and doublespeak, cause people to doubt or question or hesitate regarding their own felt sense of right and wrong. There’s something evil about that in itself.

We’re seeing a total dismissal and mockery of all civic, traditional values, from stuff like “sharing is good” to “service and self-sacrifice to help others above one’s self is morally good.” Even Dubya paid lip service to that stuff sometimes.

Kristin Kobes Du Mez is good on how evangelicals have encouraged a version of masculinity that is completely antithetical to Christian virtues. What's ironic is how cowardly these "manly men" are when it comes to standing up to Trump.

It's secular Antichrist shit but it's more than that - it's active hostility to anyone who espouses or behaves in a way that fits kindergarten-level virtue. In other words, behavior that *isn’t* sociopathy is being actively punished.

I was going to infiltrate "Cowboy Church" (real name) on Sunday to see how they were reacting to all this. With Trump announcing he would get further involved in Gaza, sins being promoted as virtues, etc., all those Southern Baptist Revelatory sermons of my youth are coming back to me.

I live in a small northern town, so my approach has been a rather simple one. I will just blurt out, "you either hid Anne Frank, or turned her in. Which are you?" It's an effective social test, with several sharp layers in one succinct question. The responses suggest some thinking is happening.

Trump is a Rand villain. Rand heroes were too interested in actually getting things accomplished to hurt people for the sake of their pain. Unfortunately, Trump and his ilk think that hurting people for the sake of their pain *is* an accomplishment.

I struggle to find good historical comparisons with this. Even most authoritarian and autocratic regimes at least pay lip service to basic concepts of virtue. It's a level of greed is good and total abandonment of the collective - in a supposed democracy! - that feels almost uniquely insane.

For me there are two defining traits of fascism/nazism. 1. is its revolutionary nature; fascists (unlike eg. Franco or Salazar) don't want to go back to better times or preserve the existing social structures; they want to create a new world 2. is its defiance of christianism - I'm not using the

It feels like instead of a Fascist regime supported by Capitalism, it’s a Capitalist regime supported by Fascism… With greed BECOMING a show of patriotism 🤔

probably my little leftoid brain working on overdrive, but it seems an inevitable consequence of hyper-capitalism. Virtue has been replaced by the Profit Motive for people like musk and Thiel. It isn't just their goal to make all the money its their divine fucking right, as far as they see it

I often try to find parallels to ancient Egypt (it was my field of study). Biden is Pepy II: aged, incompetent, uninterested, caused a terrible famine. Trump is Akhenaten: narcissistic, incompetent, angry, forces everyone to listen to his rambling, collapsed the empire. But Musk? I have nothing.

All I can think of is the reign of Caligula. His entire reign was based on "Fuck you, I do what I want and there's nothing you can do about it!" and he would make insane decisions that made no sense whatsoever. The King in Orange is one step sway from nominating a horse for the Senate.

He's a solipsyst. Bad attention is still attention. He LOVES hearing about himself out of other people's mouths. This is all of us essentially stroking his ego day after day. He craves that spotlight, which is why he never should have been allowed to run at all. He got rich backing, though.

Some weird combination of american calvinism and divine right of kings imo. They're allowed to do this because of who they are, and if you're not allowed to do it because of who you are that is somehow a failing in your existence. "Je suis le etat" etc...

It’s like the Khmer Rouge if it was led by a bunch of soft-handed sociopath venture capitalists who faint when they get a bloody nose. Govenment not just by sociopaths, but uniquely spoiled sociopaths who are actively angering a lot of the actually hard people in government.

I wonder about the influence from frequent use of pot? Israeli research suggests it hampers the part of the brain involved in empathy while it numbs pain. Used in Africa as war drug using youngsters for horrible massacres and by Indian sect of Hassasins. Some people are psychopaths like rapists.

"Empathy is destroying civilization," broke my brain. It takes this bizarre "up is down," strategy to a another level of nuts. They've really moved from practicing Ayn's Objectivism to actually preaching it. We literally use caring for others as a sign of sapience. 🤦🏻 I just can't.

A big part of this is that Trump seems different from most of the other big names in that not only is he a narcissistic sociopath, he just does not care about even feeling like he’s the hero. Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, even Pinochet, all those guys *saw* themselves as the hero in their own ways

The Nazi world-view completely rejected conventional morality and was a sort of anti-morality. These excerpts are from the introduction to Timothy Snyder's "Black Earth: The Holocaust As History And Warning" (2015).

It's uniquely American Built on good ol' fashioned salesmanship (i.e. making people buy something by lying to their faces) by school bullies. That's who these people are; they haven't matured and there is no greater pleasure for them than shitting on others

Before the election I was reading a lot about the tyranny of the late Henry XIII. He was narcissistic and “always right” — besides the physical there were a lot of similarities. I’m just a retired librarian but seems not a bad comparison.

Remember that anything “collective” is Communist. There is no national interest save making it easier for the worst people in the world to hoard money and laugh hard at well-meaning folks while all but directly torturing them. The new national motto might as well be “fuck you, go get your own.”

It is greed, but it goes deeper than that. It's misogyny. They associate all virtues -- kindness, sacrifice, even basic courtesy -- with women, whom they hate, and gays, whom they fear. They fear the feminine in themselves, and everyone else must comply with their efforts to kill it.

Yes. “Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing” is a core value, so any value or virtue placed above victory is an abomination. Virtue does not maximize shareholder value because all value is assigned by the market.

I don't remember where I first heard this, but I'm getting a lot of mileage out of "South Park morality." The first person to take anything seriously loses. Any and all sincerity deserves nothing but ruthless mocking.

Seeing as we recently had a Prosperity Gospel PM (Scott Morrison) in Australia it all seems very familiar. If you’re rich (and white, male, straight, cis of course) you’re God’s Chosen and if you’re not you’re forsaken and they don’t give a damn about you. See also Robodebt.

I in fact had a nightmare that, thanks to Trump, society devolved to a level where helping others wouldn't benefit anyone and was actively punished, and the only way to live and survive was to be cruel and uncaring towards others.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU. Way back in 2020 I figured that Republicans would begin to punish and deride basic empathy and kindness, and now here we are. Punishing people for NOT being sociopaths.

A friend once loaned me his copy of Atlas Shrugged. Being unfamiliar, I thought, “oh cool, I’ll read this book a friend has kindly lent me, it will make us better friends.” I think I managed almost three pages, but really only needed one. We did not become better friends.

I read it back when I would just hear book names a lot and didn't have the internet to make up my mind for me, and I'm kind of glad I did. It let me see where a lot of these assholes get their motivation.

indeed: "No elementary school teacher would tolerate such behavior [as trump's] from a student, and we can never accept such moral failure from a person placed in a position of public trust."

They've laundered Prosperity Gospel nonsense through corporate/finance-bro "leadership" dogma and weed vape philosophy: to have power is to deserve power, and thus to be righteous, virtuous, an aspirational figure, a tautological philosopher-king. Virtue is whatever the Strong Man did today.

there's no real policy or societal goals for a huge portion of them, even. musk is after money and nazi eugenics, but the average hate filled gomer would shoot their own family to piss off the blue haired girl at starbucks who's a third his age and doesn't flirt back

George W Bush really thought he was the good guy. It explains so many of his failures. The planning for an occupation in Iraq really requires one to come to terms with the fact that we're doing an evil thing, and resolving to do it well. Even that can end up better than what happened

This reminds me of the American flag thing again, most Americans like the flag, and most Americans like human decency. Example? This poem is still all over the place. It's a coalition building opportunity, and we don't even cede ground to make allies using this stuff because we all 100% agree.

I never thought I'd be such a traditionalist, but pretty sure a van is gonna throw me in it soon and whisk me away to a detention camp for seeing an errant cart at the far end of a supermarket parking lot and wheeling it back inside to save a worker some time.

Yes. I said this elsewhere, but I think Trump the narcissist and Musk the capitalist multi-billionaire both fundamentally resent being told they should care about other people and are bad for not doing so. So they're building an America that will never tell them that.

Bingo If you see a disabled or queer person on the street, they want the natural reaction to be to mock and yell slurs at them and to be rewarded for it Instead of people nicely saying hi to each other every day, they yell slurs and insults

deep down unvirtuous people know that they can and should be better and this makes them feel ashamed and angry, so they lash out, and also hang out in packs. Some part of them knows what they are doing is wrong, is wasting their lives and spoiling their souls. And that makes them afraid.

How can Magas be friends of one another if a basis of friendship is trust? There must be some other glue? It can’t be looking one another in the eye…

I wonder if there's any way to get a movement going demanding that Musk release more information about his finances. I mean, I remember the failure of trying to get Trump's tax returns the first time around, but I'd like to try it again.

For example, I'm willing to bet that I donated a significantly larger portion of my income in 2024 than Musk did of his to 501(c)3 charities that I have documented proof for and can therefore claim on taxes.

I keep thinking about how what's happening is an affront to both a grade-school level civics education and a galaxy-brain level of political theory. It's so crazy making to see this and observe that even the most retrograde conservative men-in-suits idea of civic duty is just gone.

Outside of the obvious fascist ambitions they are the end result of greed is good neoliberalism. There's isn't a new thought in there just Reagan on steroids. Neoliberalism in crisis steered by capitalist interest = this type of fascist BS

And many trump supporters when they die have obituaries that read "greatest guy you'd ever meet, would give you the shirt off his back.. was always there to help a friend in need" - but when it comes to politics these same ppl suck off a psychotic sociopath who wants to axe grandmas medical payments

Trump is 78. But he's not a product of political culture. His background is business, and 'business ethics' is a contradiction in terms. Musk is 53. He is literally the next generation: the generation that sees business as the sole paradigm. 'Virtue' (virtù) is a relic, a fossil of an ancient time.

I know it won't do any good, but my particular hobbyhorse is to start listing the ways Trump fulfills almost every part of the premilennial dispensationalist fantasy prophecies of the Antichrist.

There is a philosophical debate going back to the ancient Greeks over the question of the unity of virtue. Must you have all virtues in order to have any? Whatever the answer to that is, I've long thought that Trump is living proof of the unity of vice. The present junta is its actualization.

It’s the apotheosis of the usa - “rugged individual who isn’t smart or kind and doesn’t play by the rules but gets results, dammit” crossed with the “anyone can succeed in america (and success = wealth)”. trump and musk are the natural result of a society spending decades telling itself these lies

I don't even think it's money. kindness is often the more money-saving option in the long term, like how a city will spend $/year on homeless people and it would be cheaper to just give them housing. but they don't, because too many in this country see cruelty as the point.

broadly, the left would allow some level of fraud in a system if it means more people get the help they need, while the right would rather deny everyone help in the name of preventing someone from getting something they don't "deserve."

This has been on my mind a lot lately. This battle is no longer a political one in a political arena. It is a battle for the most basic of morals and virtues. They want us not just to abandon democracy, but goodness, kindness, generosity, etc. They are attacking core principles of our humanity. 1/

During the last Gilded Age, there was a moral revolution before the progressive reforms could be implemented. I think we're back at that point again, where we need to talk in stark moral terms more than political terms. We need to reawaken that spirit. 2/

It's so much of a piece with gun culture as well - the language-structure of morality but with the words replaced by blasphemy and filth. And it's interesting that the people most infected were, until recently, the most publicly and ostentatiously "virtuous."

it would be easier to understand if it were mere Mammon worship. Their sole principle is the debasement and defilement of all virtue for its own sake. I really wonder what everyday life is like in their communities.

It's been since Reagan. I did wfh & volunteered at my best 40hrs/wk. When I got sick it was basically new number who's this? I really tried to make community. My new neighbor helps me. My BF, my daughter but all those hours kinda think were wasted on ppl that just used me. I tried.

“Hate the sin, love the sinner” (a phrase I hate) was always cover for “I should be able to do what I want to you without consequences” and was always headed toward “Hate” only, no excuse needed.

It's the very conservative Catholic influence from Project 2025. For them, "Virtue" only pertains to chastity. Everything else is optional, transactional, utilitarian, situational whatever. Just keep those purity pants on at all times.

This feels directly related. They are redefining reality. It has many benefits ofc, as below, but a big one is using the new reality to upend any social structure they don't like. It's also a far right thing, to impose their beliefs completely on captives/citizens to make them conform & submit.

Lara Lynn@laralynnwrites.bsky.social

It's a vital propaganda tactic. You have to define reality and truth for people, and language is one avenue. So you subvert meaning and create your own groupthink, which also aids in people feeling special and smart bc they know the club passwords and they're in on the jokes. Alternative facts.

Let’s start with the joint, loud trumpeting of an admitted, racist lie about Black Haitians eating domestic animals as an openly admitted cynical ploy to agitate against LEGAL immigration. Trump did it and Vance supported and explained why it was necessary to do it!!

There's the old Norman Vincent Peale Positive Thinking & its descendants on the Trump side and Randian thinking on steroids on the Musk/techbro side combined with the apostate Catholicism that under girds the Project 2025. In an incredibly toxic melange. Virtue is nowhere to be found in that mix.

Attorney Robert Barnes, part of the Alex Jones defense team, recently suggested Trump could go "full Andrew Jackson" and ignore 'setbacks' dealt to Trump by the courts. Jackson ignored SCOTUS re: "Worcester v. Georgia", leading to the "Trail of Tears". This is a terrifying scenario.

I’ve been saying. No society before ours has put antisocial narcissists so high on a pedestal. It’s not just Trump. It’s the entire culture—from the “cruel kids” to Instagram culture to the Kardashians… etc. Self interest has won, is winning.

Same as it ever was.... "These natural, and apparently adequate means all failing, what will convince them? This, and this only: cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly—done in acts as well as in words. 1/