tal yarkoni

tal yarkoni

@talyarkoni.com

sciolist. mostly made of ice cream

7.4K followers479 following1.2K posts

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“i'm really enjoying this book,” you think. “i'll just put it down on this table and go out and enjoy the lovely summer weather. i'll come back to it later.” you fool

i'm deeply ashamed to report that i really have been posting on linkedin for the past few months. not often, and definitely not unironically, but posting nonetheless

tal yarkoni@talyarkoni.com

update: the platform is too powerful. i've been absorbed as one of their own. it was foolish of me to go there

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anyway, the problem with posting on linkedin is even the subversive posts are carefully metered. you get one for every ~150 posts in your feed. try to read any more than that and they come to take your soup away

try to write more than 3 a month and they send you to linkedin reeducation camp, where only recruiters are allowed to talk to you, and if someone ever tries to tell you they enjoyed what you wrote, it comes out as a "celebrates this" emoji

i'm deeply ashamed to report that i really have been posting on linkedin for the past few months. not often, and definitely not unironically, but posting nonetheless

tal yarkoni@talyarkoni.com

update: the platform is too powerful. i've been absorbed as one of their own. it was foolish of me to go there

you can talk about ai apocalypse or whatever as much as you like, but i still think the real technological crime against humanity is the collapse of good online shitposting spaces

crazy that the latest models from the big labs have all been minor version bumps on paper despite huge improvements in benchmark performance and qualitative feel. hard to imagine the labs releasing major versions that feel incremental at this point, which is... terrifying?

this is interesting, but feels at best incomplete. i think there are at least 3 separate reasons we haven't yet seen consistently good writing from AI, at least in long form (microfiction is arguably mostly solved): 🧵

Ryan Moulton@moultano.bsky.social

Hypothesis: AI writing is bad primarily because in general what makes writing good is the specificity of what it communicates and its information density, so the prompt that produced good AI writing would be as long as the output.

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which is just to say that, even if base model development halted in its current state, we probably *will* still get a good AI novelist in the next couple of years. it's just that it's not trivial to build the right harness, and not a lot of resources are being thrown at that particular problem.

buuuut even then, i'm skeptical that any particular AI, short of genuine ASI, would ever be *widely* received as a good writer, for the same reason that even the most popular human writers are usually appreciated by only a small subset of people. it's just inherently subjective.

this is interesting, but feels at best incomplete. i think there are at least 3 separate reasons we haven't yet seen consistently good writing from AI, at least in long form (microfiction is arguably mostly solved): 🧵

Ryan Moulton@moultano.bsky.social

Hypothesis: AI writing is bad primarily because in general what makes writing good is the specificity of what it communicates and its information density, so the prompt that produced good AI writing would be as long as the output.

View full thread

3. it's arguably more of a harness problem than a base model problem. i think @moultano.bsky.social's point that information needs to come from somewhere is correct, buuut... it doesn't have to be in the prompt! it could be in the weights (hard for reason (2)), or it could be in the harness.

of the 3, the harness is probably by far the easiest way to keep a narrative on the rails as more information is introduced. this is pretty much how human writers operate too! human novelists don't sit down and spew out 100K words linearly. it's an enormous process of iteration and refinement.

this is interesting, but feels at best incomplete. i think there are at least 3 separate reasons we haven't yet seen consistently good writing from AI, at least in long form (microfiction is arguably mostly solved): 🧵

Ryan Moulton@moultano.bsky.social

Hypothesis: AI writing is bad primarily because in general what makes writing good is the specificity of what it communicates and its information density, so the prompt that produced good AI writing would be as long as the output.

View full thread

2. for reasons related to the above, learning to produce coherent and high-quality long form writing via pretraining or RL is probably much harder than learning to generate code or even do math. lack of verifiability, and the inherent subjectivity of writing, really hurts you here.

one way to think about it is that the manifold you need to learn in the latent space is much larger, because there are many more ways to be good. you probably need an incredible amount of feedback from expert judges, and you have the standard chaining problem, but with very few intermediate labels.

this is interesting, but feels at best incomplete. i think there are at least 3 separate reasons we haven't yet seen consistently good writing from AI, at least in long form (microfiction is arguably mostly solved): 🧵

Ryan Moulton@moultano.bsky.social

Hypothesis: AI writing is bad primarily because in general what makes writing good is the specificity of what it communicates and its information density, so the prompt that produced good AI writing would be as long as the output.

1. the problem is just way harder. good writing is mostly an aesthetic judgment, unlike code or science, where correctness is often verifiable. people are much less forgiving! if AI writes 120K words of code that *works*, devs are impressed even if they think it's insecure spaghetti code.

whereas if AI writes a broadly coherent 120K-word novel, nobody is impressed unless they also like the quality of individual paragraphs. so an AI writer has to be able to write like almost *every* human writer to be "good", and it has to produce high quality writing fractally, *at every scale*.

characteristically lovely and reflective piece by @ftrain.bsky.social. if you want to better understand how the ground is shifting under every software engineer's feet right now (and soon, under pretty much *every* knowledge worker's feet), this is a great place to start

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everyone gets to decide for themselves what tools they want to use, and no one is obligated to try to help develop, steer, or regulate any technology, including AI. but remember that refusing to engage doesn't stall the conversation; it just means the people you disagree with get to drive it.

i understand being skeptical about AI companies' intentions, but if you think Altman's calls for less regulation are a cynical ploy to limit checks on OpenAI's power, it seems hard to argue in the same breath that Amodei's call for *more* regulation is a cynical ploy to hype the product. pick one!

i mean, sure, one can imagine a world where *all* of these companies are malevolent, and their CEOs just have contradictory opinions about how to be more evil. but the much simpler explanation is that many people who work in AI are completely sincere when they say governments should be very worried

apparently Americans' brains are so fried from decades of fighting tobacco and oil companies that it just doesn't register as a real possibility that someone could simultaneously be making a lot of money doing a thing and also wanting other people to have a say in the future of that thing

yes. right now a lot of people are high on the idea that all the unpleasant work is being done by the models, leaving humans in charge of all the valuable high-level judgment and decision-making work ("taste"). it won't last. the models will soon have better taste than any human. plan accordingly.

John David Pressman@jdp.extropian.net

This is correct, so I'd really appreciate it if you took me seriously when I said the problem here is that the value of labor, all human labor, not just desk jobs, because we're going to get useful robots soon too, is going to zero and if you have a socialist bone in your body we need to organize.

the idea that AI will solve coding, music, and legal discovery, but somehow not sciencing or CEOing is wishful thinking. the good news is we might finally get those lives of leisure people have been talking about for centuries. but it's hardly guaranteed.

tal yarkoni reposted

I do not understand people who fly on airplanes but do not want to look out the window the whole time. You! Are! In! The! Sky!

downtown Berkeley is one of the best ice cream neighborhoods in America: * melt me creamery * almare * scoop n chill (mostly for the biscoff flavor) * caravaggio gelato lab * lexie’s frozen custard …plus a few others. it isn't why i chose to live here, but it might be why i stay here forever

i usually know exactly what my songs are trying to say, and it's almost always nothing

phoneswithchords@phoneswithchords.bsky.social

My songwriting friend and I have this saying… “Sometimes the song gets there before you do.” What we mean is that often times the writer doesn’t know what a song is really about until long after it is finished. Sometimes only in hindsight do we know what we were trying to say.

many years ago i did a college radio show called "village idioms" where the (accurate) premise was that my co-host and i were idiots interviewing poets. we always asked the guest what their poems meant, and my favorites were always the ones who were like "nothing, i just like how it sounds

a crucial thing i think is lost in much of the "is AI a net good or bad" narrative is the secondary impact to the vast majority of people who aren't at immediate risk of either losing their job or seeing it dramatically transformed. historically, this is where the bulk of utility comes from!

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in isolation, the impact on my life is tiny compared to that of an illustrator who loses their job, or who now can't get hired. but there are maybe 30K professional illustrators in the United States. and tens of millions of people who need or want to create illustrations (or would, if it were easy).

i don't know how one weighs the direct, immediate costs to artists and illustrators against the secondary and tertiary quality-of-life improvements for everyone else. i do think it's genuinely hard, and framing this as a war between artists and software developers seems profoundly unhelpful.

a crucial thing i think is lost in much of the "is AI a net good or bad" narrative is the secondary impact to the vast majority of people who aren't at immediate risk of either losing their job or seeing it dramatically transformed. historically, this is where the bulk of utility comes from!

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this is what feels missing to me in the current conversation. it seems clear, for example, that many artists and illustrators will lose their jobs because of nano banana pro, which is a real step change in capability. that's a bad thing! we shouldn't pretend otherwise, and we should be sympathetic.

but we should also consider the downstream impacts on everyone else. as of last week, i can produce figures and illustrations i simply would not have been able to produce otherwise. that's already making my life slightly better—and also the lives of the people i convey information to.

a crucial thing i think is lost in much of the "is AI a net good or bad" narrative is the secondary impact to the vast majority of people who aren't at immediate risk of either losing their job or seeing it dramatically transformed. historically, this is where the bulk of utility comes from!

if you had only focused on the impact to scribes and writers circa the invention of the Gutenberg press, you might have concluded that the press was either really evil (the scribes all lost their jobs!) or the best thing ever (easier and cheaper for writers to disseminate their writing).

but the thing is, professional scribes and writers were (and the latter still are) tiny segments of society. most of the utility associated with the press actually came from everyone else: people who found it easier to read (and learn to read), find, disseminate, and absorb information, etc. etc.

i haven't had enough time to form an impression of Gemini 3 globally, but it remains just as much of a natural-born illusionist as all the other models. takes almost no work to get it to give up the ghost on consciousness