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Gonna briefly do an AI take: it used to be possible to have interesting discussions about AI here, and it's got progressively less so. You can't just think AI is bad, or overhyped, you've also got to subscribe to a very particular worst-case scenario about *how* it's bad and how bad it is.

There's a particular view on its environmental damage, psychological damage, and that it's useless, and if you deviate from that here you just end up deluged in yet another debate about those things, instead of the discussion you were trying to have.

I think it's quite noticeable that several thoughtful and serious AI critics now post here much less than they used to. Some have gone back to X (or if they didn't leave, upped their posting there), while others just don't seem to post anywhere very often any more. It's a shame.

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That’s interesting. I would have to admit my baseline position is that AI is overhyped and I’m unconvinced about the scale of its net (I mean total net) benefits. But I don’t quite get why, if I were evangelical for it, I would be driven off this site by a bunch of sceptics I don’t know.

It's more that if you're where I am, which is that this is an impressive technology with transformative potential, surrounded by hype merchants, and at the centre of a damaging financial bubble, it's hard to have constructive conversations

The overhype is so pervasive that it's the industry itself that has made rational discussions almost impossible. We could start by agreeing that LLMs are not AI and have zero chance of becoming intelligence.

Why do you think running statistical models on large (stolen) datasets has 'transformative potential'? Can you describe what an LLM is and how you think it works? If not, that might be why you're getting pushback.

James Ball@jamesrball.com

When you respond to a post that's more than 48 hours old that went even semi-viral, there is almost zero chance your post says anything new that the OP hasn't seen *many* times by now. That's the nature of social media, I guess, but amazing how many people don't really grasp it (or choose not to)

Because you just end up embroiled in "no it's shit, it's a plagiarism machine, etc". And the conversations I want to have include "how do we properly regulate this technology," and "how to we make sure we handle this technological change better than previous eras"

But even if I were to come on here and say that AI is shit (I haven’t), why would someone who believes in it be frightened off a tech platform full of early adopters? What is it about AI that the proponents seem uniquely unable to defend themselves on here? I’m clearly missing something.

Again, agree. A bit more complicated for me because I have a novelist wife whose work has been ripped off. Mine also probably. And people like Clegg want to claim that this innovation is impossible without theft but equally they don’t want to share the resulting profits 

Thing is there’s no ROI for most use cases at actual cost and we’re at the end of Moore’s Law and there are inherent limitations in LLMs so we’re kinda stuck except for burning needless energy and capital. The best thing for the actual good use cases isn’t better discourse, it’s a bubble pop.

There's such a vibe of 'we have to meet MAGA halfway' about this. By the way, are they still generating CSAM on X? Because the only constructive conversation about that is 'let's burn it with fire' and anyone who thinks otherwise does not deserve respect.

You see some academic or policy communities mourn that their discipline never really arrived on here. I think good AI criticism did arrive here, but has largely withered away/been driven off by one specific subset of criticism which I personally don't find particularly interesting or convincing.

Same experience here. I don't want to talk that much about #LLM s here because of the knee-jerk reactions, even from people whose opinions I value and would like to follow in other topics (which is why I haven't started blocking and muting them). bsky.app/profile/jmko...

Janne M. Korhonen@jmkorhonen.fi

I have the exact same experience from leftish/liberal experts, researchers, officials, and expert organisations in Finland: they are far more pragmatic about #LLM s than what is the average in BlueSky. And we are working out ways to use these powerful tools for public good and progressive purposes.

Is it fair to call them 'AI critics' rather than sceptics, because I think it was the sceptics who met the critics/obstructionists here who arent really interested (as with lots of SM) in a good faith discussion?

I don't want to lose the word "critic" though, as a sometime book critic I think it's a handy word for someone who tries to critically assess a work/field/book/movie!

OK James, you put that data center in your backyard and then come talk to us OK seriously. Where is the nearest data center to where you live? How many more do you want in your area because if you’re not willing to support a data center in your backyard, you’re not supporting AI

As an ND person I find Copilot incredibly helpful as a starter for 10. I throw in my brain work shit & ask it to help sort it out. This might involve multiple (10’s) of iterations. So please don’t tell me I’m crap for finding this v helpful. I’ve heard I’m crap too much in my life already.

Hey man do you think we are also not bored and frustrated by having to constantly repeat ourselves all the time? Do you think that anyone who is harmed by this stuff actually wants to spend tons of their own time trying to convince people in your position? Because I assure you: it actually sucks!

People need to make a habit of openly disagreeing with people who share their conclusions but have arrived at them for the wrong reasons. I'd call myself an AI sceptic (I think it's not as good or useful as people believe) but also despair a lot of the misinformed critique.

I don’t know what we’re supposed to do with this, mate. You telling me they can tolerate all the horrendous things that get posted on Twitter, & pay for the privilege of having it forced upon them, but can’t tolerate being disagreed on AI on here? What are we meant to do with that?

There are so many angles to AI. There is the ability to speed up research (both socially useful and harmful outcomes). There is its impact on the society, economy and environment. All interesting and valid discussions. Sadly what you get here is often AI is evil and supporters are bad people!

There isn't just one thing, one category. None of it qualifies as AI. There are a number of Machine Learning Models and implementations, some of them, dealing in quantifiable outcomes, are very efficient. Those dealing with Language and Transform are great leaps but they don't have intelligence.

Sure politics on X is toxic and Musk is a hideous person. However, ideally people on here should be able to have sensible conversations about AI. Seems particularly in the US, anti AI has become a culture war thing and that seems to block critical thinking about it!