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Shoutout to @tessa.germnetwork.com for leading an E2EE Messaging working group—plus other projects eager to build a shared #ATproto messaging standard. Let’s collaborate! Here are two I am aware of: @germnetwork.com @xmtp.bsky.social

In case it's useful, we also did some similar work at @inkandswitch.com late last year to make a variant of MLS's TreeKEM as a CRDT called BeeKEM 🐝 www.inkandswitch.com/keyhive/note...

@expede.wtf what are your thoughts on making a derivative version of MLS that replaces TreeKEM with BeeKEM? For human-to-human messaging BeeKEM group size align more with SMS/Signal/WhatsApp use cases than MLS goals. Is the BeeKEM code base suitable for this? Do you know anyone working on this?

I'd live for folks to adopt BeeKEM in lots of places, but I don't think it's quite so clean cut. BeeKEM has negative trade offs, too

Thanks @expede.wtf! There is a real tension in the community—that not everyone sees yet—between the desire to stick with MLS due to it being an IETF standard with open source reference libraries like OpenMLS, and the desire to use a protocol that doesn't introduce centralizing forces to ATproto.⚖️

Totally makes sense, and in fairness the context of deploying to ~35M users, there is a virtue to using mature, battle tested tech. MLS is pretty awesome.